Comments on: Do You Know what You’re Doing? http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/2009/04/john-doris-do-you-know-what-you%e2%80%99re-doing/ a project of the National Humanities Center Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:42:46 +0000 hourly 1 By: Gary Comstock http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/2009/04/john-doris-do-you-know-what-you%e2%80%99re-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-262 Fri, 25 Sep 2009 23:46:12 +0000 http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/humannature/?p=211#comment-262 John’s response to these comments is here:
http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/2009/04/do-you-know-what-youre-doing-follow-up/

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By: Eddy Nahmias http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/2009/04/john-doris-do-you-know-what-you%e2%80%99re-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-35 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:41:29 +0000 http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/humannature/?p=211#comment-35 Josh summarizes nicely some of the points in the previous posts. It seems too demanding to say that we don’t know what we are doing or that we are not acting on our reasons just because we are influenced in some way by situational (or emotional or whatever) factors whose influence we are unaware of. I think two related counterfactuals become relevant to help understand these issues:

1. Had the unknown factor not existed, how would I have acted differently (e.g., in what ways would we want to say I performed a different action)?
2. Had I been aware of the influence of the factor, would I have attempted to avoid its influence on me? (or a different question: Were I to learn about the influence the factor had on me, would I accept that influence as legitimate?)

It is very difficult to see how we could empirically examine these questions, but there are ways to get at them.

For some of the relevant studies, it seems that even if the answer to 1 is that I would have acted differently, the answer to 2 makes it clear it doesn’t matter much (“Oh, I wouldn’t have picked the right pair of stockings–so what? My goal was to pick the pair I liked best, and I did.”) For others, it is hard to answer question 1 (how many of the Virginias who moved to Virginia would not have moved there if they’d been named Georgia? And would Virginia say she didn’t want to be influenced by this whimsical factor?).

But for other studies, the worries run deeper (personally, I tie these worries to the free will debate, since it seems we have diminished freedom to the extent that we are influenced to make decisions based on factors we would not accept as good reasons). It seems clear that some people who would otherwise be helpful to those in need are not helpful because of the unrecognized influences of unhelpful bystanders or of being in a hurry or of smelling something gross, *and* it seems that most of us would not accept these influences as legitimate (we would counteract their influence were we able). Of course, we may in fact be able to counteract some of these influences the more we learn about them, though the jury is still out on the degree to which such knowledge “frees us.”

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By: Josh Greene http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/2009/04/john-doris-do-you-know-what-you%e2%80%99re-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-30 Thu, 23 Apr 2009 02:54:47 +0000 http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/humannature/?p=211#comment-30 Doris’ provocative post raises many questions. In particular, I’m curious about the boundary conditions of his provocative thesis: How much does one have to know about what one is doing in order to know what one is doing? If you buy your sister a birthday gift, does knowing what you are (really) doing require that you understand that you are helping spread copies of your genes? If your sarcasm is really a defense mechanism, do you have to know that in order to know what you just did with your words? Where do our reasons end and the reasons (or “reasons”) generated by forces external to us begin?

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By: Gary Comstock http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/2009/04/john-doris-do-you-know-what-you%e2%80%99re-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-42 Wed, 22 Apr 2009 01:31:33 +0000 http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/humannature/?p=211#comment-42 I suppose we all have our favorite studies showing the subtle power of framing effects. Mine is a willingness-to-pay study by Hayes and colleagues of genetically modified foods.* They seated paid volunteers at lunchtime tables and gave them each a pork sandwich. In the middle of each table was one additional food item; they were told it was an irradiated pork sandwich. One group of participants was given a positive frame. Irradiation of pork, they were told, is a safe procedure used in many countries for many years that results in a 10,000 fold reduction in Trichinella organisms in the meat.

A second group was given a negative frame: the meat has received the rads equivalent of 30 million chest x-rays. Predictably, almost everyone in the first group wanted the irradiated sandwich. They would actually bid against each other, usually up to 20 cents, for the right to exchange their ordinary sandwich for the safer one. Predictably, the second group would not volunteer two cents for the cancerous slab.

Surprisingly–to me anyway–was the result Hayes got when he subjected a third group to both treatments. I’d have expected a bimodal distribution; some folks biting while others turning up their noses. Wouldn’t you think at least some people would see through the “30 million chest x-rays” rhetoric and go for the reduced Trichinella story? To the contrary, no individuals in the group receiving both the attractive and repulsive descriptions wanted to bid. Subjects receiving both frames exhibited instead exactly the same behavior as those receiving only the negative frame.

Shouldn’t at least some rational actors hearing a negative description of an ordinary commercial food stuff be able to sift the wheat from the chaff? Especially when they’ve also been presented with a positive description? Shouldn’t a few of us be able to see through anti-science rhetoric, distinguish relative degrees of plausibility, and occasionally reach the ‘right’ conclusion? Alas, it appears that this almost never happens.

That’s a sobering result. How deflationary is it for belief in things like rationality and free will? Doris knows these tricky waters better than most. I’ll be looking for guidance from his natural history of the self.

* D. Hayes, J. Fox, J. Shogren. Consumer preferences for food irradiation: how favorable and unfavorable descriptions affect preferences for irradiated pork in experimental auctions, J. Risk Uncertainty 24 (2002): 75-95.

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By: Liane Young http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/2009/04/john-doris-do-you-know-what-you%e2%80%99re-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-29 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:11:41 +0000 http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/humannature/?p=211#comment-29 Social psychology is often in the business of showing people the extent of their irrationality. Doris describes studies of people whose home states and professions bear names resembling their own and people who confabulate when having to justify choices that aren’t – unbeknownst to them – in fact theirs. Doris provides these examples as evidence for the “irrational animal” in each of us – in other words, “we don’t know why we’re doing what we’re doing”. I think two related questions are worth addressing in this discussion: 1) how would a “rational animal” answer the “why” question? and 2) are there different kinds (or levels) of answers to the why question depending on the “what” – what one is in fact doing?

The first point is related to one raised by Dan Haybron: “it will probably be hard to assess the threat these studies pose to our self-image without developing, at least in part, a positive account of human functioning.” Before we dismiss answers as irrational we need an account of the rational answers. To take an example from evolutionary psychology: why won’t (most) people sleep with their siblings? Psychologist Jon Haidt uses this example to show the irrationality of people’s moral judgments. When he presents his subjects with a hypothetical scenario of brother-sister incest, subjects first object (“it’s wrong”), and then when asked to explain why appeal to the possibility of birth defects, psychological harm and so on. Haidt points out that subjects persist in their objections even once these concerns have been addressed one by one (e.g., birth control, psychological resilience). Thus the subjects are said to be “morally dumbfounded”. But what would it look to not be morally dumbfounded? How would a “rational animal” have answered? What are the right answers, for example, to other questions about basic moral behavior – why it’s good to behave fairly, or why it’s not good to hurt people gratuitously? Before judging whether the answers are good or bad, there must be some account of the good answers and the bad answers, whether they are in folk-psychological terms of beliefs and desires, evolutionary psychological terms, etc.

The second point is related to one made by Shaun Nichols: “It might be that the kind of judgment in the choice-blindness task – facial preferences – isn’t the sort of thing that involves decision making.” Indeed, it seems that “the sort of thing” matters when it comes to explanation. Mate selection, incest aversion, caring for one’s children – these are behaviors that may be understood and explained on multiple levels. A mother cares for her young because she loves them (belief-desire terms) and because surviving and thriving offspring will allow her genes to propagate (evolutionary psychological terms) – and undoubtedly for numerous other reasons. Also, depending on how behavior is carved up (e.g., caring for one’s offspring versus feeding one’s baby this kind of formula over that), it may make more pragmatic sense to prefer one kind of explanation over another. But again a detailed account of what counts as an rational explanation – and in what terms – helps in determining how and when people are behaving as irrational animals.

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By: Casey O'Callaghan http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/2009/04/john-doris-do-you-know-what-you%e2%80%99re-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-41 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:35:48 +0000 http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/humannature/?p=211#comment-41 Doris has an eye for the unsettling, even entertaining, features that challenge to how we think of ourselves. Perhaps surprisingly, this helps sharpen the picture of what makes us human. Here, he presents some poignant examples from a disturbingly broad class of cases that collectively show that often the best explanation for some decision or action includes factors that an untutored subject would be unlikely to recognize or acknowledge.

In my own case, I think I’m unlikely to include these other factors (does a potential new address match my name?) because I often treat explaining my decisions and actions to involve providing reasons that make sense of what I do, where ‘making sense’ means showing why my move is reasonable, or rational, or just a good idea from where I stand when I do it. I say ‘often’ because I don’t always explain my actions this way. When it serves some purpose (if I want to distance myself from my actions), I might find myself explaining why I’ve done what I’ve done in terms of external influences and causes, rather than my reasons.

What I find most interesting is why I think I know what I’m doing, even if I don’t have a good grip on the best explanation for why I’ve done it. Here’s a sketch of a simple story. Suppose I usually do have conscious access to reasons or information that is part of a decent explanation for why I’ve done what I’ve done — it makes reasonable sense of it. However, the evidence shows that in lots of cases there’s further information affecting my decisions and deeds that I don’t know causes me to do what I’ve done. Still, it’s part of, or all of, the best explanation for why I’ve done what I’ve done. And, sometimes, I’m not even potentially conscious of it as explaining or making intelligible what I’ve done. Though I can still come to know though science or close study that it impacts my decision, the processes themselves are largely subconscious.

So, I have conscious access to a serviceable candidate explanation for most of what I do and decide. But the evidence shows that often I lack access to the full or best explanation. The reason I think I know what I’m doing is that I mistake the absence of consciousness (of my action’s best or full explanation) for the absence of a further cause or better explanation of it (beyond that of which I am conscious). This is like looking around, seeing nothing, and concluding that there’s nothing around when, in fact, you’ve missed a critical detail. I mistake my lack of awareness of a further cause, reason, or explanation for the absence of a further cause, reason, or explanation. So I think I know what I’m doing. And often I’m incomplete, or just wrong.

Why worry? Once psychology admits there’s more to the mind than we recognize on introspection, what’s most interesting about what makes us human could be what doesn’t come to mind.

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By: Lizzie http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/2009/04/john-doris-do-you-know-what-you%e2%80%99re-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-40 Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:23:08 +0000 http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/humannature/?p=211#comment-40 Forgot to mention that you can even read an excerpt of the book (Dominance and Delusion”) to check it out.

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By: Lizzie http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/2009/04/john-doris-do-you-know-what-you%e2%80%99re-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-39 Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:22:09 +0000 http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/humannature/?p=211#comment-39 M.A. Curtis has written a whole book on why we do the things we do (though it doesn’t address moving to certain states!). It’s “Dominance & Delusion” and it attempts to answer why we behave as we do, believe as we do, think as we do. We look for reasons — he adopts a dispassionate attitude in his quest for answers and finds that we try to find rationales for our behavior and excuse that which we see as problematical. Quite interesting — but with complex ideas presented simply and straight-fowardly, so they’re easy to understand.

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By: admin http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/2009/04/john-doris-do-you-know-what-you%e2%80%99re-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-38 Thu, 16 Apr 2009 11:30:43 +0000 http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/humannature/?p=211#comment-38 The list of references, provided by John Doris:

References
• Bargh, J. A,, and Uleman, J. S. (eds.). 1989. Unintended Thought. New York and London: The Guilford Press.
• Bornstein, R. F., and Pittman, T. S. (eds.) 1992. Perception without Awareness: Cognitive, Clinical, and Social Perspectives.  New York and London: The Guilford Press.
• Chaiken, S., and Trope, Y. (eds.) 1999. Dual-Process Theories in Social Psychology. New York and London: The Guilford Press.
• Doris, J. M. In preparation. A Natural History of the Self. Oxford: Oxford University Press.
• Doris, J. M. Forthcoming. “Skepticism about Persons.” Philosophical Issues 19: Metaethics.
• Dutton, D. G., and Aron, A. P. 1974. “Some Evidence for Heightened Sexual Attraction Under Conditions of High Anxiety. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 30: 510-17.
• Greene, J. forthcoming.  The Moral Brain . . .  and What to Do about It. New York Penguin.
• Haidt, J. 2006. The Happiness Hypothesis: Finding Modern Truth in Ancient Wisdom. New York: Basic Books.
• Hassin, R. R., Uleman, J. S., and Bargh, J. A. (eds.). 2005. The New Unconscious.  New York: Oxford University Press.
• Haybron, D. 2008. The Pursuit of Unhappiness: The Elusive Psychology of Well Being.  Oxford: Oxford University Press.
• Johansson, P., Hall, L., Sikström, S., and Olsson, A. 2005. “Failure to Detect Mismatches Between Intention and Outcome in a Simple Decision Task.” Science 310: 116-119.
• Johansson, P., Hall, L., Sikström, S., Tärning, B. and Lind, A. 2006. How Something Can Be Said About Telling More Than We Can Know.” Consciousness and Cognition 15: 673-92.
• Pelham, B. W., Mirenberg, M. C., and Jones, J. K. 2002. “Why Susie Sells Seashells by the Seashore: Implicit Egotism and Major Life Decisions.” Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 82: 469-487.
• Stanovich, K. E. 2004. The Robot’s Rebellion: Finding Meaning in the Age of Darwin. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
• Wegner, D. M. 2002. The Illusion of Conscious Will. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.
• Wilson, T. D. 2002. Strangers to Ourselves: Discovering the Adaptive Unconscious. New York: Belknap.
• Wyer, R. S. (ed.) 1997. The Automaticity of Everyday Life (Advances in Social Cognition, Volume X).  Mahwah, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates. 

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By: Dan Haybron http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/2009/04/john-doris-do-you-know-what-you%e2%80%99re-doing/comment-page-1/#comment-37 Thu, 16 Apr 2009 02:35:12 +0000 http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/on-the-human/humannature/?p=211#comment-37 I don’t even think I know how I’m *feeling* right now, so naturally I’m sympathetic to the worries John Doris raises here. (At least I think I am.) The trick is figuring out whether lapses of rational awareness and control are extensive enough that anyone should be worried about them. (Or at least, more worried than they already were, pace our raging appetites for food, sex, and the like.) As the other commentators have noted, you could take these sorts of studies to reveal at best minor, or not particularly threatening, limitations of rational control.

Yet I’m inclined to read studies like these as “foot-in-the-door” examples pointing, along with a broad range of other research—including the situationist and heuristics and biases literatures, not to mention anthropological work—toward a view of human functioning that may not be so friendly to some traditional views of the rational animal. Perhaps it will turn out that healthy human functioning quite fittingly involves very substantial nonrational, even counter-rational, influences on cognition and behavior—and not just regarding pedestrian activities where (direct) rational control would obviously be inefficient, but in core areas of life, including setting our priorities. Depending on how the details work out, one could imagine such a picture of human life sitting rather poorly with standard issue Aristotelian, economic, and other views of the good life. (It perhaps bears mentioning that this hardly means denying an important role for rational processes in human life. The question is whether they play the roles required by our theories etc.)

This is all highly speculative, of course. The point I want to make here is just this: it will probably be hard to assess the threat these studies pose to our self-image without developing, at least in part, a positive account of human functioning. Even a long list of provocative studies can usually be dismissed piecemeal. But such a dismissal is much harder to pull off if, looking at many lines of research across disciplines, we arrive at a plausible psychological framework on which those results should be *expected*. (And better yet, prove not to be a bug, but a feature—a way it is actually good for people to be.) I suspect that framework will, in good measure, vindicate Doris’s hunch. And it may not be all that depressing either.

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